Curse

Aljasha · Oct 25, 2010, 08:14 AM // 08:14

For a reason like that, it would be enough to change the rewards a litttle and make all these quests repeatable.

Longasc · Oct 25, 2010, 10:13 AM // 10:13

It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.

Probably some of the 37% that said "too hard."
But 7 Heroes -> no more need to tone down anything, rather the opposite.

Okay, then let's turn Guild Wars 1 even more so in single player online, as nobody seems to care anymore this late in the life cycle of the game anyways.

But we should be aware that already too many MMOs have fallen victim to bad and boring gameplay because of this urge to cater to the very lowest common denominator. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is "War in Kryta", not "Farm in Kryta."

It is quite interesting that players have no problem buying Oppressor Weapons for 100P+1Ecto instead of just finishing WiK on one char and doing 10-15 War Supplies dailies on some others, casual Farm Wars FTL. Just upping the Henchmen to level 20 upon entering a WiK zone would have done it.

Now that Murdock is working on GW2, I wonder how the Crisis in Cantha will turn out. If it gets a lot easier and people cheer, we will know that the unthinking casual farmer mob has won by mob rule.

aspi · Oct 25, 2010, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Also keep in mind how poorly designed WiK is.
The increased difficulty is created by making the mobs bigger, faster and hitting harder. And that was ALWAYS the worst way of creating harder content in GW.

There is a reason why I only did WiK on two guys and even then SOLELY for the purpose of helping out a friend. I had no intention of actually doing it until I saw that the friend really needed help and wasn't just throwing fits. And since this was pre-HoM change, I actually gave my Medals to that friend because I had no use for them (well, he told me what weapon I should get him since you can't trade Medals).

Meh, the only part that was annoying imo was the everlasting amount of foes in the temple of intorable if I remember right. Bla with a full group of people was pretty easy to find, even with my Sin.
but we did have one Ele on our team in BLA and he was laughing of how low his damage output was against some of the high armoured foes.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Oct 25, 2010, 11:25 AM // 11:25

tbh, i dont care whether its 7 heroes of full heroes
i'm not really an UW or urgoz/deep player
maybe i like to try fow sometimes with 7 heroes, but that may be the hardest thing i'd try (unless DoA is harder, but wont be there much anyway)

i made a whole list of what i like to do with 5/7 heroes (vq proph means also 5 heroes in kryta)
and i'm happy about anet saying: "free content"

people will still multiplayer, as some places arent as easy or as fun as it would be with players
and alot of players will like multiplayer more after a while
i mean, playing with heroes until GW2 comes... bit boring

then the new zaishen outpost makes it easier to team up, so will balance that part

and of course if the new upcoming content will be as easy/hard as WiK, alot of people like to use their heroes

as for me, i would do the wanteds and z quests some more

it would make people, like myself, who dont play much "elite" areas/missions, play them to see whether they (we) can do it that way

7/full hero teams by increasing the amount of allowed heroes one takes overpowered? NO

7/full hero teams + heroes allowing to use pve only skills overpowered? maybe

but, if 7 heroes are overpowered without pve only skills, then whats a human party which knows what to do?

if you have "the best equipped heroes you can make" VS "the best players who know exactly what to do, and are synced with each other"
then you must know the human team will win, even without pve only skills at all, as heroes arent synced, and you probably cannot keep up with all 7 heroes and your own skills (by doing it yourself, with commands)

AI still is bad, which is good enough to let us have up to 7 heroes in our teams

if you really wanna have a hard game, ask anet to disable the ability to invite other players
most areas are doable for some (or alot of) people without humans, but not all, meaning that good enough player teams can do much more

i cant see why some dont see that fact

anyway, this is what i had to say about this topic

EDIT: dont forget the bad attitude of pugs, which makes it much harder to multiplay, 7 heroes will restore that point

Light And Peace · Oct 25, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Again, all of this seems to me as a move away from player to player interaction, which in the long run is worrisome for a set up for standalone gaming as they wouldn't need to worry about server upkeep costs, support, content development, etc.

All good things come to an end eventually. It's not like we haven't seen a serious downward spiral in play in the last couple of years. (let alone this year).

After HOM craziness fades, we'll be back to 2-3 districts of LA, 3-4 distrcits of Kam at it's busiest and continue to go downhill.

NerfHerder · Oct 25, 2010, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.
-snip-

Its pretty obvious we dont NEED full hero parties. We WANT them. Except for the WiK content, I never heard anyone say that they want a full hero party because GW is too hard. It really comes down to playstyle. Alot of players want a full hero party so they can customize thier team. Most of us that want more heros also enjoy gaming with real players. But, the reality is that real players are getting harder to find. Any game besides WoW(which to me is an unexplainable phenomenon) thats 5 years or older runs into the same problem. The way I see it, Embark Beach and the Full hero party is only a pallative for those of us left until GW2 is released.

As for Crisis in Cantha, it has already been stated that the HM version will be harder but also offer much greater rewards. I have a feeling John Stumme has a good idea of what different types of players want. And, they have learned alot from WiK. I'm going to guess Crisis in Cantha will have something for the casual and hardcore gamer.

FengShuiDove · Oct 25, 2010, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Its pretty obvious we dont NEED full hero parties. We WANT them. Except for the WiK content, I never heard anyone say that they want a full hero party because GW is too hard. It really comes down to playstyle. Alot of players want a full hero party so they can customize thier team. Most of us that want more heros also enjoy gaming with real players. But, the reality is that real players are getting harder to find. Any game besides WoW(which to me is an unexplainable phenomenon) thats 5 years or older runs into the same problem. The way I see it, Embark Beach and the Full hero party is only a pallative for those of us left until GW2 is released.

Yyyyup. I see it this way. There are 3 categories of players:

1. People who love playing with others. They will PUG or run with guildies because it's how they like to play the game. Update doesn't affect them at all.

2. People who have a good friend or a few good friends to play with. I play with my fiancee a lot, and we'll continue to bring ourselves and 3 heroes each. The update doesn't affect these people at all.

3. People who use H/H for everything. These people use 3 heroes + henchmen or 1 player + 6 heroes (I do this for FoW and have seen several others do it too). They will benefit from the 7 hero update, but the strength of a team doesn't change all that dramatically. DoA and FoW can be done with 1+6, it's just annoying. The update lets these people play conveniently in the way they prefer. It doesn't steal people from the other groups. Really.

7 heroes won't end up being noticeably stronger than 3 plus hench. There's a difference, sure, but it's not gamebreaking. It's still not as potent as either of the other groups (playing with one other player gives more PvE skill/title abuse, and it only increases the more you party with humans), it just helps those who were stuck with henchmen or a "borrowed" second set of heroes.

distilledwill · Oct 25, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Yyyyup. I see it this way. There are 3 categories of players:

1. People who love playing with others. They will PUG or run with guildies because it's how they like to play the game. Update doesn't affect them at all.

2. People who have a good friend or a few good friends to play with. I play with my fiancee a lot, and we'll continue to bring ourselves and 3 heroes each. The update doesn't affect these people at all.

3. People who use H/H for everything. These people use 3 heroes + henchmen or 1 player + 6 heroes (I do this for FoW and have seen several others do it too). They will benefit from the 7 hero update, but the strength of a team doesn't change all that dramatically. DoA and FoW can be done with 1+6, it's just annoying. The update lets these people play conveniently in the way they prefer. It doesn't steal people from the other groups. Really.

7 heroes won't end up being noticeably stronger than 3 plus hench. There's a
difference, sure, but it's not gamebreaking. It's still not as potent as either of the other groups (playing with one other player gives more PvE title abuse, and it only increases the more you party with humans), it just helps those who were stuck with henchmen or a "borrowed" second set of heroes.

This. This all the way. From what I can see, there is nothing to complain about - if you want to play with other people then do it, if you want to play with just heroes, then do it, if you want to do it with one hero and the rest henchmen then do it. if you want to take all your clothes off and dance in the water at fishermans haven then go and freaking do it.

jazilla · Oct 25, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

People on here keep missing the real point of 7 heroes: Post GW2. Once GW2 comes out 7 heroes will be GREAT for people wanting to work on GW1 HoM stuff to get items for their GW2 accounts. Also, you don't have to use 7 heroes if you don't want to and it isn't going to affect the economy. Someone using 7 heroes isn't going to get many drops lol.

Voodoo Rage · Oct 25, 2010, 03:25 PM // 15:25

I never play the game with other people. I am a father of 4 and I'm constantly up and down off the computer. Even the time I played a short mission like "G.O.L.E.M.", I had to abandon my team unexpectedly due to wife aggro. I'm sure if I had the opportunity, I would enjoy playing the missions with groups. For a guy like me, the 7 hero setup would greatly expand my gaming experience at no effect to others.

vader · Oct 25, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

People on here keep missing the real point of 7 heroes: Post GW2. Once GW2 comes out 7 heroes will be GREAT for people wanting to work on GW1 HoM stuff to get items for their GW2 accounts. Also, you don't have to use 7 heroes if you don't want to and it isn't going to affect the economy. Someone using 7 heroes isn't going to get many drops lol.

They'll get the same drops as if they were using 3 heroes + 4 henchmen so that point is moot.

Cacheelma · Oct 25, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

You actually get the same amount of drop with a full team of any kinds. That's how unrewarding group-play of GW is.

WinterSnowblind · Oct 25, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I have to further stress the point of solo play.. I mostly play the game solo, but if I'm playing with others then it's ONLY with friends, I have little interest in playing with random people online. Since I wasn't able to complete the new missions using henchmen, and most of my friends have long since moved on from the game.. I simply didn't do the missions.

Adding the ability to have full Hero parties isn't going to change anything.

Charlie Dayman · Oct 25, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.

I don't think this was directed at me, but it really can be headache to find PUGS. Especially with the pre-quests like the Inquisitor Bounties. People only seem to be looking for the later quests: A Little Help - BLA. I sat around in LA yesterday looking for PUGs for an hour, talking to my friend while I waited. No one messaged me beside my friend - and they couldn't help because they were doing something else. Not to mention, they go afk a lot.

If I had found a group of human players at the time willing to play along with, you bet I would have chosen them over the H/H option. But I didn't; I just sat around LA and wasted a whole hour of actual play time.

As for the difficulty; the WiK is challenging, but probably the most fun I've had in GW recently. I had a great time plowing through the early quests on my main War in HM with H/H, and never really thought of it as too hard. And for the record, this wasn't using boring Meta/PVX builds.

But jeez, trying to take on this thing in HM with my SF Ele? My heroes and I do perfectly fine for the most part until the henchmen decide to roll over and die. Then it's all bad news from there. Having a hero option would have been a significant help for me last night. I wouldn't have wasted that hour, looking in vain for a group to join. And I could have had access to someone who's in-game purpose is something other than a walking liability.

I'm just irked that I wasted all that time searching, and couldn't find anyone to play along with.

Skyy High · Oct 25, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Also keep in mind how poorly designed WiK is.
The increased difficulty is created by making the mobs bigger, faster and hitting harder. And that was ALWAYS the worst way of creating harder content in GW.

Are you serious? The WiK mobs have some of the best-designed builds (semi-random, even) in GW. They are generally found in groups of 3 to 6, the only enemies with special skills are some of the bosses (and even those skills are more for variety, they're not exactly game-breaking), the Mantle are lvl20, and the only time you ever get swamped with huge mobs is the grand finale, where you have a huge mob of NPC helpers as well.

Lanier · Oct 25, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.

You forgot the not wanting to team up with other players because they're acting like jerks category.

Plus, a lot of us H/H because we can't afford to not be able to go afk in game. I don't designate time during the day to play GW and then wrap the rest of my day around that time slot. Im often having to go afk in the middle of VQs or missions or dungeons to do something or another. This is a major advantage of H/H over other players - they don't mind you going afk.

You shouldn't just assume that people prefer H/H because they think players are "bad", because this is usually not the case.

vandevere · Oct 25, 2010, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Really, it's more to do with my mood at the time. I have Guildies I play with, and I do pug sometimes too.

But, there are times I just don't feel like partying with other people; or there's no one around when I want to do a particular Mission or quest.

Whatever the reason, I'm just totally happy there's going to be the full Hero Party option for those times when I can't find people, or just aren't in the mood for people.

AngelWJedi · Oct 25, 2010, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light And Peace

Again, all of this seems to me as a move away from player to player interaction, which in the long run is worrisome for a set up for standalone gaming as they wouldn't need to worry about server upkeep costs, support, content development, etc.

All good things come to an end eventually. It's not like we haven't seen a serious downward spiral in play in the last couple of years. (let alone this year).

After HOM craziness fades, we'll be back to 2-3 districts of LA, 3-4 distrcits of Kam at it's busiest and continue to go downhill.

moves away from player interaction? im sorry but where have you been? its been like this since nf. adding new hero slots wont change anything. those who want to pug will and those who dont wont. simple as that.

ThiafYeroled · Oct 25, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

>_> The elitist PUGgers creep ME out, and I'm normally up to par with their specifications. I can't imagine how casual players feel about them. The only way I'll enjoy grouping with random people I don't know is if they all suddenly become chatty again, like they were in the first six months of GW. Which, seriously, isn't gonna happen.

The wiki means that no one has to offer any advice or ask any questions, and people whine about how amazing they are because their HoM is full all the time. You guys who like grouping with humans? You should've been complaining a LONG time ago. Like, back when the Hall of Heroes was in the Tomb of Primeval Kings and you couldn't get a group unless you had literally been PvPing in there since the first day of GW, because the emotes meant people could prove you were a "n00b". This was in the first 6 months of GW, FYI, and is why I never PvP other than RA or AB now. The elitists are crazy, and not even worth trying to deal with.

Also, I play GW a LOT. When I VQ, I will always go AFK at some point for upwards of an hour to nab lunch/dinner/say hello to the outside world/feed my cat/do chores. Being able to do this during HM missions will be very nice, and taking maybe a little less time to VQ some areas will be quite refreshing.

(Plus, can you believe how awesome it'll be to have an 8-person Ray of Judgement Smiteway going on? Jesus beams for all! XD)

Sprites · Oct 25, 2010, 11:32 PM // 23:32

heh except for pvp , cool update is this comes